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Can't Get There From Here

Last week, attempting to address accusations that he’d fabricated large portions of his bestselling book Three Cups of Tea, author and Central Asia Institute founder Greg Mortenson revised his story about stumbling lost into the Pakistani town of Korphe on his way home from K2 in 1993. In an exclusive interview with Outside, Mortenson conceded that he hadn’t spent several days in the village nursing his wounds, as recounted in his bestselling memoir, but insisted that he had wandered into Korphe on that 1993 trip and not a year later, as Jon Krakauer alleges in his blistering exposé “Three Cups of Deceit.”

“I was there a few hours,” Mortenson told Outside’s Alex Heard, “probably two or three hours, had tea, and I said, ‘I gotta go to Askole.’ They took me to a cable-pulley bridge over the Braldu River ... Later, we rejoined Scott [Darsney] and the others, and we drove to Skardu.”

A few days after we posted our interview, Mortenson’s K2 climbing partner Scott Darsney weighed in on the controversy. In an e-mail published yesterday on Outside’s website, Darsney defended his friend’s record and appeared to bolster Mortenson’s revised Korphe story. Darsney confirmed that Mortenson had indeed gotten lost between the Korofong camp and Askole. “He’d ended up in a village on the wrong side of the Braldu River,” wrote Darsney. “It’s certainly plausible that this was Korphe.” Darsney also disputed Krakauer’s claim that Mortenson had never climbed in the Himalayas prior to their attempt on K2.

Today, however, Outside has learned that Mortenson’s revised Korphe account has serious problems. Even if Mortenson had got lost between Korofong and Askole, Outside now believes it would have been nearly impossible to end up in Korphe. What’s more, we’ve found a troubling lack of documentation regarding Mortenson’s climbing record in Nepal.

Outside was contacted by Masood Ahmad, a Colorado-based Pakistani tour operator who has run trips in the Baltoro region for years and who was in the area in 1993. Using satellite photos, Ahmad walked us through the geographical implausibility of Mortenson’s story.

The Korofong camp, from which Darsney and Mortenson departed on the morning Mortenson supposedly ended up in Korphe, is on the north side of the river, “at the snout of the Biafo Glacier,” as Mortenson told Outside. However, there is no bridge over the Braldu River between Korofong and Askole. The trail between Korofong and Askole does cross a bridge, but it goes over the Biafo River. If Mortenson had missed that bridge and wandered south, he would have had to swim the deep, wide, fast, and cold Braldu River to reach Korphe, an experience he likely wouldn’t have survived let alone failed to mention in his initial account.

Biafo BridgeBiafo Bridge

Ahmad also forwarded an e-mail from Krakauer in which the author pointed out a YouTube slide show given by Three Cups of Tea coauthor David Oliver Relin. “At 3:17 in the video, Relin shows a slide of a yak-hair bridge between two huge boulders,” Krakauer wrote. “Relin explains how this is the bridge over the Braldu River where Greg made his infamous wrong left turn, thereby ending up on the south bank of the Braldu and then stumbling into Korphe. Relin’s narration of this slide show is more or less the same story Greg gave to Outside magazine to explain how he ended up in Korphe. But the bridge in the video, a famous structure known as the Biafo Bridge that has been modified since Greg crossed it in 1993, does not cross the Braldu River at all.  This bridge crosses the outlet stream of the Biafo Glacier, about 4 miles east of Askole.”

Even without video confirmation of the bridge, there is no explanation for how Mortenson could have gotten from Korofong to the south side of the Braldu without going through Askole—where Darsney would have been waiting for him—or swimming the river. The following satellite image from Google Maps is overlaid with Mortenson’s account and annotated with the relevant landmarks.

Askole Map, via Google Earth Click on picture for a larger image

Equally troubling is the lack of any evidence backing up Mortenson’s claims about his Himalayan climbing record. As Krakauer pointed out in “Deceit,” the American Alpine Journal has no record of the “half a dozen successful Himalayan ascents” Mortenson claims in Three Cups of Tea. That in itself wouldn’t necessarily raise red flags, since the journal publishes only reports of ascents via new routes or of unclimbed or rarely climbed peaks.

Outside has also learned, however, that Mortenson doesn’t appear in Kathmandu archivist Elizabeth Hawley’s Himalayan Database. Outside’s Eric Hansen profiled Hawley in April; by all accounts, Hawley’s database is a thorough and exhaustive account of all Nepalese expeditions. Hawley, who is 87, meticulously contacts the leader of every permitted expedition. She has also recorded 138 illegal climbs, just under 2 percent of the 7,194 expeditions in her database.

Even today, climbers flying into Kathmandu know to expect a grilling from Hawley about their routes and team members. As Ed Viesturs, the first American to summit all 14 of the world’s 8,000-meter peaks, told Hansen, “You go to your hotel, and as you're checking in the phone is ringing and the man behind the desk says, ‘Hawley would like to talk to you.’ You’re barely putting your bags down.” In the early nineties, when there were far fewer expeditions to account for in Kathmandu, there’s little chance Hawley would have missed a single expedition, legal or not, let alone the six claimed by Mortenson, including successful summits of 24,688-foot Annapurna IV and 23,687-foot Baruntse.

In fact, well before any allegations of fabrication were leveled against Mortenson, Hawley’s assistant, Billi Bierling, read Three Cups of Tea and attempted to look up Mortenson in the Himalayan Database. It  had no record of him.

“I took the liberty to send him an e-mail and ask him about it and told him that it would be great if you could give us the information as it is not in our database,” Bierling wrote Outside in an e-mail from Everest Basecamp on April 27. “His agent got back to me pretty quickly telling me how amazed she was about my cool job and that she would get in touch with Greg and tell him to get in touch with me. It never happened.” Bierling says she later followed up but got no reply.

E-mailed requests by Outside to Mortenson’s K2 expedition leader, Dan Mazur, as well as to his handlers at the Central Asia Institute, have so far gone unanswered. Travel writer John Flinn verified joining Mortenson in 1990 for a climb of Nepal’s Island Peak, a 6,000-meter mountain popular with trekkers, but no other evidence of Mortenson’s Himalayan climbing record has surfaced.

--Grayson Schaffer
@graysonschaffer

More at Outside

Comments

37
Anonymous

So Mortenson may have lied about when/how he ended up in Korphe and whether he may or may not have climbed some peaks. That sucks, people lie all the time. All that aside, what's important is that young women are getting an education because of this guy, and that's certainly admirable.

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Anonymous

Mortenson says he went to Korphe. His climbing partner says that that is a reasonable story. It looks like there could be some sort of bridge, but it isn't clear. Google Maps obviously isn't going to show it. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I have no idea who Masood Ahmad is. Accusations of mismanagement at the CAI are more serious. It looks like they have had some problems, and they are solving those they can, and are bringing in more professional management. Other problems are much harder to solve. When you source your work to locals, as CAI tries to and, they argue, is important for their effectiveness, you also become more vulnerable to fraud. If you build a school and the Taliban comes in to shut it down, then there is not too much you can do, either. Afghanistan is a tough environment for an NGO to work in, and I am surprised the CAI has been as successful as it has been.

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Anonymous

In his April 27, 2011 piece, “Greg Mortenson Controversy comes to Telluride, but Not the Man Himself,” Allen Best wrote, “Leveling the accusations is another mountain climber, Jon Krakauer, with serious credibility of his own" Last week, Jon Krakauer published his e-book, Three Cups of Deceit, that accused Greg Mortenson (author of Three Cups of Tea and Stones into Schools) of writing a “work of fiction presented as fact. … And by no means was this an isolated act of deceit. … [his] books and public statements are permeated with falsehoods.” I haven’t had time to read Three Cups of Deceit, nor have I closely followed the Mortenson scandal, so I can’t provide informed commentary about the extent of Mortensen’s deceit. However, I’ve first-hand knowledge of Jon Krakauer’s own deceit in his revised paperback edition of Where Men Win Glory – The Odyssey of Pat Tillman (released on July 27, 2010). Two weeks later, I posted “The [Untold] Tillman Story” where, as an aside, I briefly described the nature of Krakauer’s deceit in his paperback edition. Prompted by the 60 Minutes piece, I finally finished “Jon Krakauer’s Credibility Problem”* which describes his deceit in detail. This 10 page paper (with about 100 pages of documentation) is posted at http://www.feralfirefighter.blogspot.com (it’s best to click on the scribd.com link to view a pdf copy with the formatting intact). First, Krakauer appears to have made false claims in his Preface, “Following publication of the first edition in September 2009, I discovered additional evidence of deceit by high-ranking Army officers.” In reality, just two days after his first edition was released, about 200 pages of my material was literally handed to him at his Boulder CO book signing. This material described in detail how Gen. Stanley McChrystal played a central role in the cover-up of Pat Tillman’s 2004 friendly-fire death in Afghanistan. Second, and more important than his stealing credit for his “discovery,” Krakauer’s greater act of deceit was that of omission. In his revised edition, despite having been handed my detailed material, he failed to describe how President Obama and the Democratic Congress continued the Bush administration’s whitewash of Gen. McChrystal. After reading his book, you’d think the Democrats tried to do the right thing, but they were “stonewalled” by the Bush administration. What utter rubbish! And he knows it. I agree with journalist Dan Glick who said “Krakauer and others would have been better served to devote their journalism to .... holding people and institutions accountable.” Jon Krakauer is a hypocrite when he “throws stones” at Mortenson for “deceit” in his books. Mortenson may well be guilty, but Krakauer’s own hands are certainly not clean and without sin in his revised edition of his Where Men Win Glory. * a play on the title of Jon Krakauer’s own piece, “Gen. McChrystal’s Credibility Problem,” which appeared in The Daily Beast on October 14, 2009

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Anonymous

When presented with the evidence some people just can't get past the fact of all the good work Mortenson has done. Yes, he helped, but did he help to the tune of $60,000,000 - remember every penny is going towards the schools. We learned that this not the case. I for one and others will never give CAI another cent. Yes, we got the letter from CAI this week "explaining" all the difficulties that Mortenson has had. I for one support OXFAM - while I don't know that Mortenson didn't buy expensive cars and a big house. I have seen with my own two eyes what OXFAM does in other countries. I can't say the same for CAI.

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Anonymous

The state of journalism today is sickening. First Krakauer's lies are refuted and now this piece of tripe. 1. There ARE trails on the south side of the Biaho river. You can see them in Google satellite photos for g*ds sake! 2. There are always smaller bridges on these rivers off the beaten path. Plus, bridges aren't always necessary, these high himalayan rivers vary throughout the day based on snowmelt, they aren't always running at high volume. Anyone who has camped near one has witnessed this. 3. Elizabeth Hawley does document himalayan expeditions but most definitely misses some of the smaller ones, and especially all participants on smaller climbs. If you did some basic research you'd know this. I'm not making any claim about Mortenson's credibility, just you and Krakauer's lack of it when mudslinging at a worthy cause. Think about it.

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Anonymous

Dear Anti Krakauer. You really should read the document all the way to the end. Note Bene - In fact, well before any allegations of fabrication were leveled against Mortenson, Hawley’s assistant, Billi Bierling, read Three Cups of Tea and attempted to look up Mortenson in the Himalayan Database. It had no record of him. “I took the liberty to send him an e-mail and ask him about it and told him that it would be great if you could give us the information as it is not in our database,” Bierling wrote Outside in an e-mail from Everest Basecamp on April 27. “His agent got back to me pretty quickly telling me how amazed she was about my cool job and that she would get in touch with Greg and tell him to get in touch with me. It never happened.” Bierling says she later followed up but got no reply.

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Anonymous

Anti Krakauer - Also if you really think that Scott Dorsnay's article refuted Krakauer. Scott actually refuted Mortenson, read it carefully again, he said that he and Greg were separated for 1/2 day not 8 days...

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www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawkh2QRKpe7RNNC4qB5fYs3WbFFnKgzalNA

Like many others, I have been following this story closely. I am the first to say that CAI and Greg have done amazing things in an area of our world that is not only hard to negotiate charity work in but also so very misunderstood. I have walked down the Baltoro, and across the bridge pictured above. I remember when I read "Three Cups of Tea" questioning how he could have ended up in Korphe instead of Askoli, knowing what that would have entailed. I have traveled extensively in Baltistan (even spent a week there on one of my trips with a former CAI program director) and have spent weeks in several villages where CAI has built schools (most notably Askoli, Hushe and Khane). I have seen both the positive and negative effects of this first hand. Including hearing the villagers speak their concerns over the schools and how they will afford teachers salaries, books, uniforms and school supplies as well as interviewing a teacher at one of the schools who worked for free as there was no money to pay him. Regardless of what we hear CAI does not supply funds for these expenses, and these people have basically nothing of monetary value (besides goats, chickens and possibly a cow). Which explains why some of these structures are used for storing grain now. What little money the men are able to earn goes towards the survival of their families. Most of them want education for their children, but without government help it is almost impossible. Through the years I have formed my own personal opinions of Greg, but I will leave those out as they are of no relevance. Like I said he has done great things in terms of the enlightenment for women's (and all children's) education in that part of our world.. In his speeches Greg often says he was just "a dirtbag climber" when he stumbled into Korphe, something I can totally relate to. Is this just a case of someone with high aspirations getting too caught up in the celebrity lifestyle and new found financial stability that he possibly lost sight of that "dirtbag climber" mentality (or even someone who left important decisions for others to decide while he pursued his writing career)? Possibly, but even with the financial discrepancies of CAI and Greg's book earnings, which in and of themselves are extremely alarming, the only thing I ask is why couldn't he have just been truthful in the story that was so pivotal in this endeavor he has followed so passionately? Would the end result have been that different if the book had simply been factual instead of this fictional tale we have all been led to believe to be true? There is nothing more beautiful than the truth. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, I can only hope that those who suffer are not the children that have benefited, or hopefully will benefit, from the main goal that CAI's mission was originally intended to attain.

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Anonymous

No, actually you can see all of this on Google maps. Type "Askole Pakistan" into Google maps and zoom all the way in. You can even see the supposed cable crossing. Mortenson will buy a round for anyone who can spot anything bridge-like between the Biafo Glacier and where its outlet stream meets the Braldu. And Anti Krak, stop being an Askole. Everyone in the universe wants to believe Mortenson. It's just getting harder and harder.

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Anonymous

Posting a bunch of half-witted unsupported conjecture under a story is also an act of journalism. You're a symptom of your own outrage.

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Anonymous

I'm also following this pretty closely. I'm just amazed that the common theme of Mortenson's defenders is either he is a good man or attacking Krakauer. Facts that are undisputed go against Mortenson. Just take an example of the Taliban kidnapping claim. Mortenson could not even dispute the photos showing him holding the AK-47. Why doesn't he explain these on CNN, for example?

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Anonymous

If you are afraid that the children will sufer there are many more reputable charies including OXFAM, who has an amazing reputation for bringing education to hundreds of thousands of children around the world. Look into their efforts, it seems that CAI and Mortenson were not skilled enough to shoulder this task and perhaps your money would be better spent elsewhere.

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Anonymous

Clydene et. al., If you read my posting again, I am neutral about Mortenson, my criticisms are of this article and Krakauer's allegations made using highly questionable sources. BTW, go to the CAI website and read that Mortenson directly responds that he WAS kidnapped and he WAS in Korphe at the time in question. Now, he may be lying or continuing a lie, or he may be telling the truth (now). We'll never know from these accusing articles using questionable sources though. BTW, because of this, the Central Asia Institute is dead. Guaranteed. And a big thanks for that goes out to Krakauer, 60 minutes and Outside. Contratulations!

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Anonymous

Anti, The "Taliban" Mortenson claimed to have been kidnapped by have produced a photo showing him holding a loaded AK-47 while smiling and posing with them. How many kidnappers arm their captives and pose for smiling photos with them? That part of his story is pretty well debunked.

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Anonymous

Guy Montag and Anti Krakauer: Krakuer's statements are correct. We have looked into them and need no more debate Mortenson lied. He lied. Accept the fact he lied. Like the fact he lied. And it is time for both of you to accept and like the fact that Krakauer is correct on that part. Even if Krakauer himself lied in his other books, what he found about Mortenson is 100% correct

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Anonymous

Anti Krakauer: BTW, by attacking Krakauer in an unrelated manner, you are benefiting Mortenson, so you cannot be neutral among the matter until you realize that Mortenson is lying Krakauer has his own faults, but they aren't relevant here

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Anonymous

Eric: Yes, that photo seems to be damning, but who knows the story behind it? Holding an unloaded Kalashnikov is hardly threatening. Note that in "TCO Deceit," even Krakauer claims Mahsud, who makes the non-kidnapping claim, is a completely unreliable criminal in his endnotes. Yet Krakauer prints his story as truthful and apparently everyone is buying it. Unbelieveable.

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Anonymous

Kento, If you choose to believe Krakauer, no skin off my nose, but you should use some critical thinking skills before coming to such a conclusion. Krakauer printed nothing but accusation with zero, repeat, zero direct evidence of his claims. No proof of accounting fraud. No proof of "missing" schools. No proof Mortenson was not in Korphe in 1993. No proof Mortenson was not kidnapped. Even Darsney called either Krakauer or himself a liar. Any legal court in the U.S. would throw his book out as circumstantial.

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Anonymous

Enough arguing online already! I honestly think this will play out in a courtroom. Krakauer claims he has proof of fraud, we'll see if the Montana AG agrees. Mortenson has certainly been defamed by this attack, and no doubt is receiving legal counsel on how to respond. Before that all happepns, what is most likely is that Mortenson will recover from heart surgery and go on Oprah to explain himself. In the meantime, Krakauer attacks and then retreats with "no comment" under the banner of "my work stands on it's own." Excuse me, but that is a coward's response. You don't try and kill a man's character and then hide in your high priced Boulder home watching other people shoot on-line bullets for you. Krakauer DOES have credibility issues, on several of his books, and a narcissistic personality that wouldn't admit an error if his life depended on it. Instead, he may have staked his entire reputation on the unfettered joy of bringing one man down, one man who DID build schools. Krakauer divides, not builds.

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Anonymous

P.S. How many of you would know a Talib if you met him?

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Anonymous

Anti Krakuer: "but you should use some critical thinking skills before coming to such a conclusion." - I have read extensively many media reports related to this, and saw many documents. I have used my critical thinking skills very well, thank you. The CAI board consists of Mortenson himself and two other people - too easy for Mortenson to dominate the other two It's been well established that the CAI shouldered Mortenson's book expenses, while Mortenson did not specifically earmark money from the booksales Now for the Form 990. http://www.ikat.org/wp-includes/documents/Financials/990FYE9-30-09.pdf I'll quote a poster in a San Francisco Chronicle comments section at http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/04/30/BU701J9UV6.DTL "If you really want to know what this is about, just follow the money. Go to the CAI website and download their 2008 Form 990 tax return (the last year filed and posted) and check out Schedule J. You will see the boxes checked 'yes' for private jet charters for Greg Mortenson and his "companions." Now check out the money spent on his travel and it's easy to see that Morteneson has spent mllions of dollars in money, donated for poor children and schools in Pakistan and Afghanistan, on private jet charters for himself while on his book tours. It's all there, in black and white, in Mortenson and CAI's own financial records." Now... 1. "Note that in "TCO Deceit," even Krakauer claims Mahsud, who makes the non-kidnapping claim, is a completely unreliable criminal in his endnotes. " - That referred to Naimat Gul Mahsud, one of the MANY Mahsuds who made the kidnapping claim - The one who is the NGO worker is Mansur Khan Mahsud. Krakauer says that only Naimat Gul is a criminal, out of the Mahsuds, and Naimat Gul tried to swindle his own family. 2. "No proof of accounting fraud." - Outlined by too many websites. 3. "Yes, that photo seems to be damning, but who knows the story behind it? Holding an unloaded Kalashnikov is hardly threatening." - Why would terrorists get into that pose in the first place. How would an NGO worker in Pakistan have this photo? "Any legal court in the U.S. would throw his book out as circumstantial." - That remains to be seen

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Anonymous

re Kento: 1) All the media reports and websites you read are based on a single source, Krakauer. NONE of them prove anything. 2) There is not necessarily anything legally or ethically wrong with chartering a jet or advertising Mortensons books in the way he did. If you raise 100 times the cost of your transport, would that be worth it to you? Spending $5 million to raise $20 million is well worth the cost. There is no proof whatsoever. There may be more evidence in the future, but we do not know at this time. That is what I mean by critical thinking skills. re BoycottKrakauer: Well put.

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Anonymous

@Anti Krakauer : Well put. Thank you. It's sad to see people attacking someone without holding proof and facts in their hands. And it's amusingly sad, in a way, to see people being shocked by a fact that PROMOTING a product (in this case, both CAI & books) -- COSTS a lot of money. That's a fact of life. You want to sell your product? - spend something first, or you'll end up empty-handed with your the-best-of-all product gathering dust.

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Anonymous

Kento: You may or may not be aware that Krakauer barely escaped a courtroom over "Into Thin Air." If Anatoli Boukereeve had not been a) Russian and b) dead within one year, his friends and colleagues were encouraging him to challenge Krakauer's reported "facts" in court, that Boukereeve was to blame for the tragedy, and we all know now that was not true, he was the hero of that story (you won't read about that in JK's books, just read other's who have also written about the tragedy). There is one rule in media law: you can not libel the dead. Thus, he was off the hook. And I find it interesting that all of Krakauer's subjects are dead men. Here's the first rule of libel: you print a lie knowing it's a lie. Only a jury can determine that by examining the evidence, so I hope both men have their paperwork in order, cuz they are both going to need to resolve this.

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Anonymous

Anti Krakauer said: "All the media reports and websites you read are based on a single source, Krakauer. NONE of them prove anything." - Wrong. They are also based on the Mahsuds. While Krakauer was the one who contacted them, the entire family produced its OWN set of evidence (including various photos) - The **entire family** is against Mortenson. Also WRONG because Outside did its own investigation, which is stated right here. Outside itself determined that Mortenson didn't show up in Hawley's database. Krakuer did NOT find that. Krakuer found that he wasn't in the American Alpine Journal. Outside determined that it wasn't so much a problem that it wasn't in the American Alpine Journal, but that it was a big problem that it was in Outside. Quote, to remind everybody of what is already stated above: "Equally troubling is the lack of any evidence backing up Mortenson’s claims about his Himalayan climbing record. As Krakauer pointed out in “Deceit,” the American Alpine Journal has no record of the “half a dozen successful Himalayan ascents” Mortenson claims in Three Cups of Tea. That in itself wouldn’t necessarily raise red flags, since the journal publishes only reports of ascents via new routes or of unclimbed or rarely climbed peaks. Outside has also learned, however, that Mortenson doesn’t appear in Kathmandu archivist Elizabeth Hawley’s Himalayan Database. Outside’s Eric Hansen profiled Hawley in April; by all accounts, Hawley’s database is a thorough and exhaustive account of all Nepalese expeditions. Hawley, who is 87, meticulously contacts the leader of every permitted expedition. She has also recorded 138 illegal climbs, just under 2 percent of the 7,194 expeditions in her database." Good? 2. About the fundraising, if 80% actually went to specifically **building schools in Pakistan, that would be okay**. Instead the % of money actually going to building schools was around 40-something percent (this isn't disputed), which the agency did not make readily available. I understand that fundraising is an important part of charity work, but the problem is that Mortenson did not earmark money from book sales to the charity, while the charity paid for his book expenses, so he benefited. This isn't disputed. There are arguments that his promotion was necessary for the charity to do well, but he should have handled this in a different way. You shouldn't charter private jets if that's the percentage. Greg Mortenson should have flown with commercial airlines. He could have been in coach on Delta, American, United, Southwest, anything but private jets. BTW I am aware of Nicholson's critique, saying that it takes less money to build a school in Afpak than it would in the west. But CAI should have made that readily available in plain English on its website. When you are a charity, you make everything *easily accessible** and **up front** and **in plain English** - If fundraising is a necessary cost, be honest and state how much you are doing. The donors did NOT understand that less than 50% was going to school building, so the donors are angry and furious. Enough "critical thinking skills" for you? --- mariana: Sorry, but the cat's out of the bag. BoycottKrakauer : I'm well aware of Krakauer's own issues with that book. But as shown with the Outside independent examination into the climbing record from Outside and the Mahsud family's reaction to the scandal, it's looking to be against Mortenson's favor

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Anonymous

There is nothing independent about Outside's investigation. Jon K has been their golden boy for years, (and cash cow I might add) and they have not been unbiased. It is in Outside's own interest that JK be proven correct, therefore they are correct. Further, one's previous publication history is relevant to the discussion.

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Anonymous

BoyKrak: 1. If one's publication history is relevant, let's get the Krakauer dispute with Boukreev put into perspective: http://www.salon.com/wlust/feature/1998/08/cov_03feature4.html Unlike the Mortenson thing, which was by an large an embarrassing expose that left Mortenson discredited in the eyes of much of the public, the tit between Krakauer and Boukreev was a dispute between two people that had a lot of complexities. Different people supported each of the figures in different ways. Page 4 says "Most of the big names have fallen in behind Krakauer." - So it's not comparable to what's going on with Mortenson "and they have not been unbiased" - How would bias affect what they found, that Mortenson wasn't on the Elizabeth Hawley list. It would be one thing if only Outside characterized Elizabeth Hawley's list as being thorough and everyone else did not, but if everyone else agrees Elizabeth Hawley's list is thorough, then there's no way bias can color what's happening. Either Mortenson is on the Elizabeth Hawley list, or he isn't.

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Anonymous

Kento: Does Outside pay you, or do you have a real job? P.S. I like "boykrak." has a nice ring to it. And yes, this is my job, and I do get paid for it ; )

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Anonymous

"Does Outside pay you, or do you have a real job?" I get no money from Outside. I have a real job, and I'm able to multitask pretty well (no, I'm not on a work computer when I do it) :) Anyhow, do you dispute what I said in the post at 1:51 AM?

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Anonymous

BTW, here's a page for the Hawley database: http://www.himalayandatabase.com/

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Anonymous

http://rockandice.com/news/1428-krakauer-key-source-disagrees says: "The point that Mortenson may have previously climbed in the Himalaya prompted a search by Rock and Ice that included records kept by the American Alpine Club and the noted Himalayan historian Elizabeth Hawley. Mortenson's name was not found in any records, but, said Hawley, "The fact that his name does not turn up in my Himalayan Database does not prove he didn't go to either of these two mountains ... though it strongly suggests that he did not.""

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Anonymous

On that Rock and Ice source, Krakauer said that he got an e-mail from someone who said that Mortenson had been to "Island Peak" before, so he updated the document to reflect that. The article says: "The revelation that Mortenson had climbed in the Himalaya makes his claimed ascents of Annapurna IV and Baruntse plausible, if barely. Island Peak, at 6,189 meters (20,035 feet) is a popular trekking objective, while Annapurna IV at 7,525 meters (24,688) and Baruntse (7,129 meters or 23,389) are both more technical, higher, and more serious climbs." But as for Korphe The article quotes Masood Ahmad of Concordia Expeditions - he says why Mortenson could not possibly have traveled to Korphe the way he said he did in the book

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Anonymous

Dude: Your last post is dated 2:48 a.m. EST, go to bed!

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Anonymous

Rather than paint this whole discussion in clear dichotomous terms, we should understand what it can teach us. I wrote a post on learning from Mortenson: NOW "Three Cups of Tea" is a Useful University Teaching Tool: http://bit.ly/jd0mm6 and one on what the scandal tells us about our unrealistic expectations for the social sector: http://bit.ly/k9NMbC

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Anonymous

My only question is: Do you think they will put Mortenson in with the general population or do you think he will have his own cell?

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Anonymous

Lilith: You decided to be judge and jury? Here's quote from the guardian about trying to put the Wallstreet bankers in jail for fraud: In the US, the department of justice thought it had struck gold with a string of emails sent by two Bear Stearns hedge fund managers – Ralph Cioffi and Matthew Tannin – who privately worried that the sub-prime market was "pretty damn ugly" and "toast" while telling clients that everything was sunny. Their funds, which had investments of $20bn, collapsed, contributing to the subsequent demise of Bear Stearns in its entirety. But during a trial in Brooklyn in late 2009, a jury decided that private expressions of self-doubt didn't amount to criminal fraud. That acquittal seems to have put paid to efforts to lay charges elsewhere on Wall Street – including the top brass at defunct Lehman Brothers. Now, please put this issue in perspective and understand that to be guilty of fraud, one must deliberately set out to defraud people, and it must be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Millions of people lost their jobs and homes, but you want to see Greg Mortenson in jail?

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Anonymous

Most knowledgeable discussion I've read, bar none. While I cannot vouch for Outside's bias or lack of it, many thanks to them for putting out the pre-"60 Mins" interview and successive articles ~ far more helpful than the regurgitation of most articles & posts.

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