Whatever else they accomplished, these two guys succeeded in maintaining the image of the Ugly American. Even in our own land, they would have been out of line not to follow a democratic process in making such a decision concerning our public lands. But in another country, they should have asked permission before even expecting a vote on the issue, never mind making a unilateral decision. News to all climbers: “conquering a peak” is a figure of speech—climbing a mountain does not mean you own it! While Maestri sounds like a piece of work himself, it wasn't up to a couple of Yanks to right whatever wrongs the Italian committed in Argentina. The locals' wrath was understandable, and Kennedy and Kruk owe them some apologies as well as some efforts at restitution.

Whatever else they accomplished, these two guys succeeded in maintaining the image of the Ugly American. Even in our own land, they would have been out of line not to follow a democratic process in making such a decision concerning our public lands. But in another country, they should have asked permission before even expecting a vote on the issue, never mind making a unilateral decision. News to all climbers: “conquering a peak” is a figure of speech—climbing a mountain does not mean you own it! While Maestri sounds like a piece of work himself, it wasn't up to a couple of Yanks to right whatever wrongs the Italian committed in Argentina. The locals' wrath was understandable, and Kennedy and Kruk owe them some apologies as well as some efforts at restitution.

My apologies: Kruk is a Canadian.

My apologies: Kruk is a Canadian.

My apologies: Kruk is a Canadian, but I'm sure his countrymen don't appreciate what this does for their image either.

It's very simple: It wasn't Kruk and Kennedy's place to remove a piece of history in a place where they are visiting. It's disrespectful.

I agree with your points, but on the other hand I like seeing people take action! They knew the risks and were prepared for the consequences. Sport sometimes outranks borders. If they were from South America do you think the public backlash would be as great?

Taking action . . . one of those dubious claims to validity. You can find many examples in human history of people "taking action" that was nothing more than a grab for notoriety, or an impatience with a process that exceeded their non-existent patience and knowledge of the big picture. Sport trumps borders in matters of sportsmanSHIP and life-and-death situations, but beyond that , it's a bold climber indeed that feels he speaks for the world as he climbs in a foreign country and makes these kinds of unilateral decisions. My first thought when seeing this item was that the townspeople were upset because the two climbers had returned the route to it's former difficulty, and felt they would now see fewer paying customers coming through. But it appears it was more of an Ugly American thing. I agree that there wouldn't be so much brouhaha if Chilean climbers, say, had chopped the bolts, but so what ? Most of us shake our heads at Maestri's folly, and our buddies Kennedy and Kruk found it easy enough to ignore the boltline for their ascent. My question: Are they trying to make a summary purist judgement, like Robbins on El Cap, or do they fear "Into Thin Air"- style overuse ?

I agree with Derek. If some Chilean climber came into Canada and unilaterally decided to knock out a bunch of bolts on a historically important (if infamous) route, many local climbers would undoubtedly be up in arms. And rightly so.

As the decades past, our brave climbers got better and better and the gear too, so I understand why they took the bots out, they want to keep the climb more pure and available for the few that can really do it ! Keep the rock clean and difficult so the next generations have a playground that will make them better than ours, lets not forget that while the territories were the mountains are belong to some countries, the climbing routes are "without borders" . When first the Eiffel tour was built, they hated, now its an attraction, when Maestri bolted everybody focused on the fact that the impossible was achieved, now that impossible can be achieved with out bolts, on the other hand, if we can not do it with out bolts than lets go and bolted again. The polemic continues ....

Maybe the Argentinians should come to Yosemite and chop all the bolts in the Vslley and remove the cables from half dome...

So, did they fill in the bolt holes with epoxy and sand, or did they just leave a bunch of ugly holes and chopped metal stubs that are no aesthetic improvement on the bolts themselves? The answer to that is obvious. Nothing is more boring than climbers wallowing in arguments about 'ethics' and 'purity'. C'mon, most high-end climbers - aside from athletic ability - are just lifestyle vagrants engaging in an adrenalin sport, not some shining example of the human spirit as they so often wish to perceive themselves. The inflated egos of pebble wrestlers are one of the biggest turn-offs of the climbing community. And of course, the summit must be reserved for elitist fanatics. At all costs. That's what this was really all about. I hope some future climbers don't need that obvious bolt line for an emergency retreat in the face of storms.

First: I'm slightly surprised about all the xenophobic notes in this discussion. I don't see what mother tongue and where you are born has anything to do with the real issue at hand. We as climbers are a community that should transcend these divise and ultimately imagined lines. I think it's safe to say that Kruk and Kennedy spent enough time in Patagonia to know the local customs and networks, for all that matters they are part of the "local" climbing community. So let's first dump all this talk of "ugly Americans/Canadians" or "what would the locals say if a bunch of Argentinians came up to the Valley and started chopping bolts". This line of arguing reeks of the 1930s and adds nothing substantial to the discussion.

Second: Just because you made a first ascent doesn't mean you get to do what you want, nevermind how stupid it is. There is a responsibility that every serious climber shares, and the "vision" of the first ascender is not the last word in the argument. Thought experiment: If I established a new route - maybe or maybe not sponsored by McDonalds - and inferred from this the right to spray the yellow M on a red base everywhere where you can place pro on the route, would that be ok if I claimed it was part of my vision? No, it would be a monstrosity. So my two cents props to Kruk and Kennedy. They pulled off an awesome route and did what they thought they had to do on the way down. I might have not done the same thing but I respect their decision. There is no shame in what they did.

The mountain does not care about bolts. Or climbers. Climbers care about bolts, so remember: this isn't about the environment, it's all about us. Motivated by his ego driven vision of his place in the world, Maestri bolted the route. Motivated by basically the same thing, two guys took them out. The former is considered unethical and unsportsmanlike, which it certainly is, while the latter is considered ethical and sporting, which is debatable since they were visiting someone else's country acting unilaterally on their own. Moral of the story: examine your own motives. Then let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

"climbing routes are without borders"?!?! Wow, that is disrespectful thinking. I do not agree with xenofobism, and believe me, as a brazilian, the argentinians would have killed me! But the north-americans decision was stupid and at least disrespectful no matter the nationality. About the argument that the intention was to keep the mountain virgin, or to maintain purity of the ascent, come on... after you have overclimbed, overcrowded, and constructed ski stations all over north american mountains?? Now the world discovers the wilderness in patagonia and starts having ideas about purity! Do help keep patagonia wild, but with the aid of - and discussing matters with - locals.

"climbing routes are without borders"?!?! Wow, that is disrespectful thinking. I do not agree with xenofobism, and believe me, as a brazilian, the argentinians would have killed me! But the north-american's decision was stupid and at least disrespectful no matter the nationality. About the argument that the intention was to keep the mountain virgin, or to maintain purity of the ascent, come on... after you have overclimbed, overcrowded, and constructed ski stations all over north american mountains?? Now the world discovers the wilderness in patagonia and starts having ideas about purity! Do help keep patagonia wild, but with the aid of - and discussing matters with - locals.

"In February 2007, an assembly of Argentine and foreign climbers in El Chaltén voted 30–10 against chopping the line. " Sounds to me like a decision had already been made and these two felt that they knew better. I'll stick with the 2007 vote myself.

If Americans owned land they would agree, but America is all stolen so the act like they own everything

I believe, two things should be taken into account: For one thing, the compressor route, the 'easy way up' - be it good or bad - attracted 'tourist' climbers and is therefore an economic factor for the region. So the locals, who depend on the tourism, should have a say in the matter. The other thing is 'climber's ethics'. Many people criticized the route, but didn't chop the bolts. And, honestly, it seems that hadn't Jason Kruk been scared that Lama, who climbed days after him, might free the route and 'minimize' his achievement this time, I guess (and many do) he wouldn't have bothered either. It very much looks like this was all about Kruks ego, not ethics. Ironically, as it is, Lama freed the south east ridge, anyway, and Kruk helped Lama to greater fame now than the guy would have achieved if bolts had stayed in place.

As a Canadian I suppose I might be embarrassed by the "we know better" arrogance... But then since I'm not proud of a countryman's achievement (his, not mine!) why should I share his shame?

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